UnderwareDESIGN

hi

 thought it was about time i showcased my demo that i have been working on for some time now.

it is a scrolling platformer with several weapons and items to use. the demo is mainly focused on the game engine, rather than an actual level.
edit:  the main character is a simple rock-man, and there is no sound or music yet.

http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/ (http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/)

https://playbasic.com/stevmjon/ (https://playbasic.com/stevmjon/)

hope you like it, let me know what you think.

 stevmjon

p.s.  source code included.

edit:  updated the thumbnail pic (dec 2010)

 Steve,

   Nice to finally see this up and running.   The game seems to run fairly well, even on the old duron system.   I liked the weapons,  but took me a while to figure out actually.    Had a look at the code and I see why it's taken so long, so It's probably a good idea you're going to rewrite it..
 
   BTW,  I used your barrel animation as an CRF demo btw.   [plink]Here (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=2892.msg20871#msg20871)[/plink]

glad you liked it. i made the controls varied to suit different styles. i hope this doesn't create confusion.

method 1)  left hand= asdw  _  right hand=mouse

method 2)  left hand=keyboard  _  right hand=arrow keys

check out the 'controls' button in the menu to view all controls.

i wanted the weapons to be varied in behaviour. later, in another update, you will need your weapons to solve puzzles, as well as defence/attack.
the fire arrow isn't finished yet. the sprite just flashes orange after being hit. this will change to flames later on. the ice arrow effect will also be altered. you will be able to push the sprite when it's frozen.

i have lots of ideas yet to code. i also made the webpage where the game link goes. web packages are like learning an art program these days. click and paste. i love it.

  thanks  stevmjon

      It reminds me of  Shadow of the Beast III for some reason,  not visually, but where i imagine your heading with it.  More puzzle than hack and slash.   Which is a good thing, if you can get a handful of puzzle mechanisms implemented, then the level designs will almost create themselves.    You don't want to get caught up too much in this though, as sometimes less is more.   Never Dawn (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=2675.0) is good example of this.  Simple mechanics, but it works pretty well..

      Had a bit more of sticky nose through the code again (thanks for posting that btw),  what strikes me is that's it'd be  pretty labour intensity to write as well as maintain.   I would hope that with the rewrite you'll look more into the structure of things,  such as via the use of  Types and a more modular design in general.     By modular I mean, breaking the game down into a set of components (core problems) and building on top them.  Effectively abstracting the game logic from the PB command set.   This often means a little more setup time to write, but it'll make putting this all together a lot easier to develop and maintain as a program grows.   

      Ultimately,  what you should really be looking to build a 'game engine' that can play whatever level you point it at.   Ideally it's best that level creation is external/separate from the game engine.   Not only so 3rd parties can make levels (friends/family/public), but it helps separate the game code from the editor code.     

Hi stevmjon

well had a quick go of your game today , very nice graphic's and looks like it going to be a good game to play , keep up the good work , looks like you have put in loads and loads of work with this one ,
ahhhhh , starting again , well lots of work all to be done again but should come out even better

very nice start , look forward to finished version , good luck

mick :)

to kev

thanks for your input, what you mentioned is where i intend to go with my new code. i intend to make a game engine, and also a mapper/sprite creator that is seperate, and then 'connect' them both to build my levels. i have had this idea for some time now, but i wanted to finish certain things in my old code first. i have learnt so much doing this, that this code has shown me where i need to head. i have gone about this the wrong way so to speak, but it has shown me what i needed to know to code the right way.

to micky4fun

thanks for your kind words.  the graphics are made in a 3D program called lightwave 3D. i came up with an idea if making a grid to use with the 3d models, so i can line up tiles, and also so i can keep everything within proportion to each other. this way when all graphics are side by side, they are the correct size. this has helped especially when making repeatable tiles.

hopefully the new code should be made fairly quickly, as i now know what i want to achieve. i have made a lot of mini programs experimenting with different things/commands etc to understand them better. i will post as frequently as i can.


also, i intend to make the game with puzzles to solve, but only have the more difficult puzzles to access bonus levels. this will allow for better game play, as i hate being 'stuck' and not being able to continue. this lets players ignore/move on from difficult puzzles to continue their journey.

i have so many ideas...

stevmjon

Steve,

Quotewhat you mentioned is where i intend to go with my new code. i intend to make a game engine, and also a mapper/sprite creator that is seperate, and then 'connect' them both to build my levels.

   That's good to hear, it's a little more work to set up, but the creation process is so much easier in the long run.  Plus it lets you bring in 3rd parties in to help with creating in game level puzzles.     

Quotei have had this idea for some time now, but i wanted to finish certain things in my old code first. i have learnt so much doing this, that this code has shown me where i need to head. i have gone about this the wrong way so to speak, but it has shown me what i needed to know to code the right way.

     Seeing it through is an admirable quality.   But It's this type rethink that really helps us  improve our next efforts.     Years ago we build a series of shoot'em ups (among other things).   Enforcer / Enforcer II which later became [Thesius XII (http://www.thesiusxii.underwaredesign.com).    Long story short,  while Thesius XII was much prettier than it's descendants,  it was too difficult and time consuming to build levels for. So the build time kept blowing out.. it's still not complete today, and probably never will be  :(  -  My point being, that putting the effort into the game engine & creation tools is really worth it.           

    While on the subject, i've been meaning to knock up a bit of demo using some of your older artwork,  however, I was wondering if it'd be OK to use some of the new stuff ?.     

     I don't know what you have planning for this visually, but judging from what you've currently shown, I think with a little planning you could build the scene rendering solution that uses a combination  of rendering to video and dirty rectangles via temp fx buffers.  Which  means that you add anti aliasing to foreground grass/characters.   

to kev

these graphics are just experimental at the moment. if you want to use them it is o.k.
my aim was getting the 3d scenes proportion correct.

QuoteI don't know what you have planning for this visually, but judging from what you've currently shown, I think with a little planning you could build the scene rendering solution that uses a combination  of rendering to video and dirty rectangles via temp fx buffers.  Which  means that you add anti aliasing to foreground grass/characters. 

i would like to look more into this. i haven't tried this yet. could you point me to some examples, as i want to render using the best method.
is the anti-aliasing done using the alpha layer?
i tried using afx images, they looked great, but ran slow. better advice to what i already have is greatly appreciated. this is a good time to do this while i am starting again. it can be more easily set-up.

thanks stevmjon

 Steve,

   

Quotecould you point me to some examples

       Try  2D Platformer Revisited - Parallax Version (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=2906.0),   shows various similar approaches in use.   

   

Quoteis the anti-aliasing done using the alpha layer?

        yep.   

   

Quotei tried using afx images, they looked great, but ran slow.

         I can imagine.  The cost of rendering a blended pixels, is far greater than a opaque ones.     I recommend reading the   Tutorials (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=2552.0) under   Program Optimization.  These cover everything you need to know. 

hello

just letting you know i am still working on my new program. it is comming along much faster and better than the old one.

i took a screen grab of the new render method i am using. depending on your computer, it is either slightly faster or slower than the older method. so to average it out, it is pretty much the same speed. for me, this is exciting.

the graphics are changed also. i am having fun with my 3D program again.
i hope to make a main character soon. i will study rigging and character movement for my 3D program. should be fun, i hope.


thanks,  stevmjon

Hi stevmjon

Clad to here that its coming along a faster than the old one , its looking very nice graphicly at the moment , hope you get this up and running soon , think we are all looking forward to this being finished

all the best and keep tapping away

mick ;D

thanks micky4fun.
  i am glad you like the newer graphics. it is amazing at how different the tree looks from reply#9 above, even though the tree image is exacly the same. i only used the standard render method (front screen / back screen) for the whole time i coded the first demo. when i finally learnt the afx alpha method, even i was amazed at the difference. it is amazing the difference using the alpha layer makes.

drawing all graphics to a screen sized fx image (system memory), then drawing this image to the backscreen(video memory), then sync to the front screen to view it was the trick.  you just need to remeber to attach the camera to the fx image, and use capture to scene. when the camera is drawn, everything in the scene buffer is drawn to the fx image. important for alpha blending images/tiles.

i will keep you updated as i get more done.  stevmjon

hello

another update. i have now added a mapper that you can use during gameplay. it lets you change the walking height for each individual tile (see pic). i prefer having each pixel (horizontally) its own height, because it allows for uneven ground.

once done, just save, and the next time you play, it will load the data from your saved file.
now i have learnt how to save and read a file, i can work on saving and loading a game.  :o

stevmjon

just letting you know, i am still working on my new game.

progress has been much faster with this one (@10 months), compared to my other game (@4 years).
been learning new techniques & more commands. i have even made a mapper.

i have just added an animated main character. you can test my new demo anytime from my website.
http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/ (http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/)
scroll to the bottom of the webpage to download new game demo.

tell me what you think of the main character movements.

  have fun, stevmjon

p.s. source code included

    The demo looks good and feels nice and slick as always !  - Had a quick look-see at the code before, and  it seems like you've made some improvements.  But, there's certainly some room to move in that regard. but anyways.

    

QuoteThe demo looks good and feels nice and slick as always !  - Had a quick look-see at the code before, and  it seems like you've made some improvements.  But, there's certainly some room to move in that regard. but anyways.

thanks kev. i found that functions and types are very handy. it really shortens code, and makes it easier to edit.
i also optimised the rendering using the multi pass method, as well as dirty rectangles method. i also used 'copyrect' between the fx image (backscreen) and the video backscreen because too much of the fx image (backscreen) wasn't being drawn. it definately sped up render time though. do you think it is o.k.?

* while in game play, press F5 > 3 > H or J  (everything in boxes is fx image backscreen)

some of the code is a direct copy/paste of my old code. i actually don't use all of it, it is just there for reference. i will cut it out soon.
also, the mapper tab is not very well optimised, because i didn't expect to grow it so much. it was mean't to be small and quick. i just kept adding to it, and adding to it. it is actually a little hard to edit this section, but it is almost finished. it has been a learning experience though.

stevmjon

Quotethanks kev. i found that functions and types are very handy. it really shortens code, and makes it easier to edit.

   They make code more modular / secure.  Which is one of those programming concepts that's easy to overlook.  While there's some functions appearing, there's certainly room to move in this area.   One thing that worries me about the new code is that it's still mostly open scope.  In other words, everything can see everything else.  While this might seem easier from a deign point of view,  it's a logic error waiting to happen.   So the more we more towards encapsulating our routines within Functions/Psubs the less likely those type errors will be. 

   That probably sounds critical , that's not my intent.  Which is simply that, prevention is the best type of cure.. 

Quotei also optimised the rendering using the multi pass method, as well as dirty rectangles method. i also used 'copyrect' between the fx image (backscreen) and the video backscreen because too much of the fx image (backscreen) wasn't being drawn. it definately sped up render time though. do you think it is o.k.?

    Yep, but i've only briefly a looked at this the other day though, had some difficulties following it to be honest ;)  -  it certainly seems to be an improvement in terms of evening out the amount of the memory that's being moved each refresh by the CPU.   From what i understand, you're rendering the backdrop as video image directly to the screen, then rendering the scene fragments (that require blending) to the fx image, then copying those chunks down to the screen, so the output image is composite.  Which is indeed what we're after.   

     There's still some opportunity being missed here I feel.  As we can occlude backdrop elements by the foreground map layer.  So when a foreground chunk is completely solid, we don't render that portion to the FX image at all, we just draw it directly to the main screen.  So that way we're saving time by not drawing anything that's being drawn behind that chunk, and then not transferring this chunk from the FX to the screen.   The only portions we want to be shifting are those that we absoluetly have to, which are those that are knowingly not completely solid foreground and knowingly not nothing (sky/backdrop), so we must blit them.   

     I set up an example last night (using your map data) that uses the method above. The demo includes a few variations on the same theme as well as the standard 'brute force' method for comparison.    The results aren't mind blowing, but they're pretty pleasing none the less.  If I run the demo in 1280 by 1024 (32bit) and render as brute force (draw everything  to fx image, transfer fx image to screen), it takes this machine about 17->18 milliseconds to do that.    By masking the scene, that time reduces to about 12->13 milliseconds  for the same section of the scene.    obviously as you move through the world space the performance gain fluctuates depending upon what's in view.   It's not uncommon for it render inside the 10 milliseconds at the resolution, given that world data.   Obviously lowering the resolution further improves the result.   So it'll scale down for even older hardware better.

    I'll post the example later.    BTW,  Don't be too surprised to see your map/arts used during the upcoming mapping imporvements pass( next beta).  It's much more visually stimulating than looking at some coloured squares on the screen :)

 

Quote* while in game play, press F5 > 3 > H or J  (everything in boxes is fx image backscreen)

   I liked the heads up display feature.   

Quotesome of the code is a direct copy/paste of my old code. i actually don't use all of it, it is just there for reference. i will cut it out soon.
also, the mapper tab is not very well optimised, because i didn't expect to grow it so much. it was mean't to be small and quick. i just kept adding to it, and adding to it. it is actually a little hard to edit this section, but it is almost finished. it has been a learning experience though.

    So the mapper is the level editor ? - What's the keys/controls as I couldn't get anything happening really.

QuoteYep, but i've only briefly a looked at this the other day though, had some difficulties following it to be honest  

i calculate each level, finding images that need to be added to the fx screen. then calc a zone to draw images, and not draw others. thats why there are so many gosubs and functions. i want to draw the absolute minimum.

QuoteThere's still some opportunity being missed here I feel.  As we can occlude backdrop elements by the foreground map layer.  So when a foreground chunk is completely solid, we don't render that portion to the FX image at all, we just draw it directly to the main screen.  So that way we're saving time by not drawing anything that's being drawn behind that chunk, and then not transferring this chunk from the FX to the screen.   The only portions we want to be shifting are those that we absoluetly have to, which are those that are knowingly not completely solid foreground and knowingly not nothing (sky/backdrop), so we must blit them.

i didn't think of drawing solid tiles directly to the video screen.
also, should i cut up the video backdrop to only draw the portions that will be visible after fx portion are copied over? i just draw the video backdrop whole (i thought big bits are faster than multiple smaller bits).

QuoteSo the mapper is the level editor ? - What's the keys/controls as I couldn't get anything happening really.

> it is best used in 1280*900 screensize (press F7 in menu at start of game). focus on what's written in the right side of the screen.
tiles won't paste down if there isn't enough room for the whole set (approx 5 rows are pasted with each mouse click, if room).
> also, you must be able to see a preview image, enclosed in a purple box, that shows you which tile you are about to paste. if you can't see this, you haven't clicked any of the small white boxes on the right side of the screen. these boxes are your selections. sometimes two boxes need to be selected.
> to paste images (trees), you need to click on the ground surface.

also, i learnt about functions about half way through this code. if i started again, i would definately have more functions.

stevmjon

 Steve,

 

Quotei calculate each level, finding images that need to be added to the fx screen. then calc a zone to draw images, and not draw others. thats why there are so many gosubs and functions. i want to draw the absolute minimum.

     Well, it makes good sense to eliminate as much redundant rendering as possible.  Got to be careful though as there's a point though where our routines to remove rendering, can actually cost more than the rendering itself.    For stuff like the sprites within the screen,  we want to avoid any overlapping areas.    The approach that i'd be taking is working out what tiles the sprites on screen cover (masked against the foreground).   With the occlusion approach above, we only have to draw regions where a section of the sprite is over a sky tile.  As those tiles won't be drawn during the map pass.  So we're slotting the missing parts into the scene.  

Quotei didn't think of drawing solid tiles directly to the video screen.
also, should i cut up the video backdrop to only draw the portions that will be visible after fx portion are copied over? i just draw the video backdrop whole (i thought big bits are faster than multiple smaller bits).

    The way you're doing it is a more optimal solution, as the rendering will be in parallel.   What occurs, is the GPU is drawing the sky,  while the cpu it's doing the rendering of the block sections/chunks to the FX buffer.  

    In terms of the image blitter, the smaller the block size, the more it'll choke on it.     Which is really evident with 16*16 and 32*32 blocks say, but the larger the blocks, the less impact stalling has.   The 100 * 100 size you're using, aren't small enough to really choke it, but are large enough to benefit from the off loading onto the GPU.

    Here's the demo from that other day (got side tracked.. again ;) ) -  It uses a few variations on the foreground occlusion approach to try and remove redundant scene drawing.   The world is just the level data & gfx data dumped into a single file.  The example contains the loader/save function for this job, plus a bunch of functions for various tasks.  I've documented most of it, it's not really much to it..   The code was written in PlayBASIC V1.64M Beta11 or beta 12 (or above), as such it has a switch at the beginning to toggle what version you're running.  

     Performance wise I tested this on the Duron 800 mhz system the other day, and it runs between about 30fps to 60fps at 1024*768.   Which is well within the bounds of the being playable on that hardware. 

      Use the number keys to change draw modes (0 to 4) or the space bar to step through them..

     Steves Platformer With Map Occlusion Test (http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/demos/Steves_Platformer_Map_Test.zip)

thanks for your demo kevin.  i am combing through it right now.

i am eager to work out the fastest rendering method.

  stevmjon

I really like this demo it is a very good and great job you have done. I can't say anything more/ felicitation.

thanks 659_minifly.

i am glad you like it. i am now adding in sprites & weapons. i will post when they are ready.

  stevmjon

hi

just letting you know that i have updated the game again.

http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/ (http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/)
*once on the website, scroll to bottom of page for new game link*

> added sprite collision
> added a weapon(mine) & character sprite(beetle) _ all animated

fire button = space bar / left mouse button

now the routines are in, it should be easy to add to.

 enjoy, stevmjon

Only played the new demo a tiny bit, but it's good to see the other characters appearing again. 

I couldn't get it to start. It tried to maximize the screen but never worked.

Tried to run it on my work computer, though, which is running at some insane resolution.

my next update has better screen selections. i have brought back the menu again, with more screen resolutions to choose from.

hopefully this will work for you.

stevmjon

Worked! Really like the style of it, but there's not that much gameplay beside the jumping right now. What are your plans for the future?

hey devain

my next update, comming very soon, is a bigger area, with some more baddies, and items to collect. the game play should grow faster now, as all i need to do is simply add more gameplay.

my goal is to have weapons, items to use, baddies to deal with, and puzzles to solve using your items and weapons. also as game play time increases, so does your abilities, items, weapons etc. i am also going to add foreground objects, moving at a different rate as background objects to help with giving the game a feel of depth.

i will post updates more often, probably each month, and any suggestions are welcome too.

stevmjon

finally made a slightly bigger demo.

> menu is back
> all characters & weapons are animated
> titlebar is updated and operational

note: pressing "v" during game play turns  on / off  screenvsync (smooth display).

http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/

also, my website is updated and only has the new demo.

   have fun, stevmjon

hi stevmjon

this is really coming along nicely , can see a great deal of work has gone into this , i know this as taken you ages to do , but it well looks worth the wait and effort you have put ino it ,
keep up the good work

mick :)

thanks mick

the new version has been in the making over a year now.

hopefully, this version runs without any bugs (eg. the old game used to freeze).
you should now be able to jump off any ledge without falling off the world. i now have gates in place or tiles to prevent this.

i am going to add 45 deg tiles to walk up/down to access more areas as well. i just need to tear myself away from playing oblivion IV. great game. recently installed it, but can't stop playing it.

stevmjon

I thought of commenting this at last.

This has a good feeling to it. It's nice and peaceful and can easily become a good platformer when it's done :)
Only one thing... Isn't the sign that says "More comming soon..." supposed to say "coming"?

Still looking good, keep it up. Just don't "feature overload" yourself and you'll be fine.

thanks for your comments. i am glad the game is liked. keeps me motivated.

i recently installed window 7, and i noticed in my game that the text on screen (titlebar & test text(F5)) is slightly messed up, compared to when the game ran in windows XP. it is not as clear to view. otherwise, it seems to run fine.

i will keep growing the game, and update as often as i can.

stevmjon

Your graphics are very very good . The game is also very impressive .
Keep going and thank you very much for your work.
;D ;D

thanks. i need to keep going. i haven't done much programming in the last 3 months.

thank god i have a 3D program for the graphics! all i do is model the ground tiles, trees, characters etc then surface them. the program does all the lighting and shading calculations, making it look nice.

i am actually thinking about starting this code from scratch again. my current code still has a lot of my 'old habits' still in it (too many gosubs). functions & types are the way to go.


stevmjon

i checked this very early on and just did again,looking very nice now, smooth.

well done, its a good-un

thanks monkeybot.

  it's taking a long time, because i keep going over my code, and re-writing it. i've already made new graphics, but i have new ideas to add to the game again, like scrolling clouds and background tiles that move at a different speed than the forground tiles.

i am currently looking at the best render speed method, because i am filling the screen view with AFX images/tiles. the only video left are solid tiles, which take up the least screen space. i need to think about this, because i don't want the whole screen AFX, as this uses the CPU. sooo... i may change the screen layout, to include solid video tiles from the grass all the way down to the bottom of the screen. the more solid tiles, the more the graphics card is used, so a faster render speed.

i will keep experimenting, and see what i come up with.

  stevmjon

Quoteit's taking a long time, because i keep going over my code, and re-writing it. i've already made new graphics, but i have new ideas to add to the game again, like scrolling clouds and background tiles that move at a different speed than the forground tiles.

  Adding layers is easy enough (See occlusion in V1.64M for example), but we do need to be careful about the scope of our game ideas here.  There will always be more cool things on the horizon, but at some point we need to make a choice as to where they fall.  Do they fall in  version 1, or version 2 ? - Otherwise it's like chasing your own tale, there's no clear end point.
   

Holly By Stevjmon -  PlayBASIC Game Demo (2020-12-15 )


    This is fantastic platformer tech demo written by stevmjon over a decade ago (it's dec 2020 today),  but it demonstrates some different approaches for building a platforming game in PlayBASIC. 


--[ Music: ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Float  by  Geographer
 

Looks great!

Smooth movement and great graphics. That's where I fall a bit short. I don't have the patience to do a lot of detail of particular objects.

What do use for the graphics? Is there a particular paint program good for doing something like that?

I used AutoCad for some 3D simulated graphics into 2D games but don't do that much anymore.

hey kman

glad you like it. i actually have a newer version of this but haven't uploaded it. the website this version is linked to was made years ago with old software.
what i would like to do is get kev to increase the file size limit on the posts and i can just upload the newer one here. i could load it here if i break the graphics up into smaller files, but that is mucking around for users.
i am wanting to make a new version and have the world diggable, so you can make your own design, with crafting etc. more a survival world you can interact with.

the graphics i make myself using 3D software called lightwave 3D. i first model the objects, then place textures on them, then render the image.
then i used photoshop to touch up areas to get tilable seamless textures.
but this 3D software isn't supported at the moment, so there is blender 3D if you are interested. i looked at blender myself but need to get used to a different interface.
funny how you get used to certain software layouts.

with the character animation, it is all done inside the 3D software. i make the character in different sections/layers, then give each section a pivot point, like arms legs etc, then parent these to each other (like connecting via pivot points) then animate them over a timeline. then i save this as images for each frame of movement. it is not that difficult to do. i just looked up animation movement images on google to get what the walk cycle etc should look like.
i do have images of this somewhere i could look for on my computer and post it.

   thanks for your input, stevmjon

kev,

the link for this project file is closing soon. is it possible you can increase the file size limit for a post so i can upload it on here? the file is 15 meg zipped.
otherwise i need to make another website to have the file there, or i can use dropbox or similar. (don't prefer this as i like to have a screenshot and info about it, drop box doesn't have this)

i ask because i could choose to break this file into smaller sizes and upload these across multiple posts, so it will be 15 meg anyway, just separated. that is why i would just like to upload in a single post instead.

  You mean the file over at    http://www.users.on.net/~stevmjon/   ?

 I can upload it here easy enough.


Actually I could mirror the page on a subdomain or a static page on PB


I've made a mirror of it over here for the time being

https://playbasic.com/stevmjon/ (https://playbasic.com/stevmjon/)

cool kev, that is the link i mean.

if you don't want to increase the upload limit on posts, if i have any other projects i want to upload that are bigger than 5 meg, could you do the same thing and place it on PB website?

Quote
if you don't want to increase the upload limit on posts, if i have any other projects i want to upload that are bigger than 5 meg, could you do the same thing and place it on PB website?

   Yeah sure..  I can put stuff on PB no drama.    Ideally that'll come during a site update, where members can post to the gallery / source & tutorial sections.