Kevin, where should we raise threads about our WIPs or general questions for the HeroesQuest competition?
I would love to see
- who's joining,
- what ideas people have (if they want to tell),
- a place to ask game design or coding related questions (which map format [old PBMapper, Mappy, new PBMapper], tiles or shapes),
- share code fragments (input or keyboard mapping routines)
and so on.
Should we use the base HeroesQuest forum or use this one?
Tommy
In the Heroes Quest ;)
You mean this board?
UnderwareDesign > General > Competitions > HeroesQuest (Moderator: kevin) > WIP threads or ideas/ramblings for HeroesQuest competition?
Muhahahaha ;)
I did think it was a little too obvious for words.. but there ya go :)
hey guys. i did some graphics work for a game a while ago (samples below).
If anyone is interested i'd be glad to provide the backgrounds and animation sheets for you to use.
it was a static game so there are NO tiles and i don't think i'd be interested in making any.
the platforms are tiled so you can make any platform arrangement you wanted.
you can take what you want too. if you just want the characters then that's ok.
i think for best results you are gonna need an anti-aliased render
anyway if you're interested you can send me a pm.
Hero animations (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=krig1vs4.swf)
Animated level mockup (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bg5pe3.swf)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/blinkok/rocks.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/blinkok/docks1.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/blinkok/jungle.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/blinkok/village.jpg)
Whoa!
Those graphics look great! It doesn't match the theme idea I had in mind but that stuff is excellent!
In my next life I need to improve my drawing abilities ;D
Is this pixeled stuff or vector art?
I'm definitely interested in your graphics - are they still available or is anyone already claiming them?
Cheers,
Tommy
they are vector. rendered out to bitmap. i'll put a package together on monday. do you want 1bit transparency (not so purdy) or anti-aliased (purdy)?
If purdy means pretty (that's what dict.leo.org says) then purdy ;D
Thanks,
Tommy
k i'll sort it monday
Uh oh this competition looks like it might be really fun...I might have to try to sort my frame rate problems and make a game. It's calling me.
Yes, join the compo - it will be fun ;)
I'm still having frame rate problems...for no reason at all in fullscreen w/ a camera/scenebuffer. The only code running is literally FPS text + the usual captureTOscene/camera stuff and I get like 58 fps (no setfps,vsync on). And other people are getting like...1000+...
I think if Vsync is on your frame rate is bound to the refresh rate of your graphics card/monitor which is 60 frames for a TFT for example.
Give it a try with Vsync switched OFF.
Cheers,
Tommy
no, the only code is this:
OPENSCREEN 640,480,32,2
createcamera 1
Do
CAPTURETOSCENE: CLSSCENE
text 10,10,FPS()
drawcamera 1
SYNC
LOOP
right now I'm getting a paltry 300 fps, if I do much on the screen it becomes unacceptable and goes under 60.
Quoteif I do much
Such as ?
Have you actually timed the render.
OpenScreen 640,480,32,2
Do
inc frames
t=timer()
cls 0
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
text 10,10,FPS()
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
if Spacekey()=true
cls 0
Print t1#/frames
Print t2#/frames
Print t3#/frames
sync
waitnokey
flushkeys
endif
t=timer()
SYNC
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
LOOP
OpenScreen 640,480,32,2
Do
inc frames
t=timer()
cls 0
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
text 10,10,FPS()
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
lockbuffer
t4#=t4#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
unlockbuffer
t5#=t5#+(timer()-t)
if Spacekey()=true
cls 0
Print t1#/frames
Print t2#/frames
Print t3#/frames
Print t4#/frames
Print t5#/frames
sync
waitnokey
flushkeys
endif
t=timer()
SYNC
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
LOOP
well I really have no idea, I used to get at least x3 the performance (around 900ish fps, basically doing nothing as mentioned before, barebones: camera, text for FPS on the screen, bitmap shaded text, thats it) from playbasic apps on a MUCH inferior machine versus What I'd call a good gaming rig, but hardly anything top-of-the-line:
single core 2.3ghz processor Vs. dual core, same speed
Geforce fx_5200 (http://www.nvidia.com/page/fx_5200.html) Vs. a much much superior, Geforce 8600 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8600.html)
512 MB of RAM (two sticks of 256) Vs. 2 GB of RAM as two sticks of 1 GB
even if this is a directdraw issue, what DD used to do would be it would just blit your pixels, thats it. Then they made it so everything is basically a plain with a texture slapped on it, so theoretically it should be even faster using the 3d acceleration vs. blitter.
Is anyone having similar problems with newer NVIDIA hardware + drivers?
update: Ok, after a format, new drivers, everything. I've determined it's just my computer for some strange reason. I'm out. I tested the drivers on friends machine, got 1000+ fps.
Quotewell I really have no idea, I used to get at least x3 the performance (around 900ish fps, basically doing nothing as mentioned before, barebones: camera, text for FPS on the screen, bitmap shaded text, thats it) from playbasic apps on a MUCH inferior machine versus What I'd call a good gaming rig, but hardly anything top-of-the-line:
And the results form the above snippets are ?
Quoteeven if this is a directdraw issue, what DD used to do would be it would just blit your pixels, thats it. Then they made it so everything is basically a plain with a texture slapped on it, so theoretically it should be even faster using the 3d acceleration vs. blitter.
No. What they did is the removed the
Direct draw interface from DX8 and above. They didn't replace or redirect DD to D3D, they added dxsprite interface. Which in turn is a cheesy wrapper for draw primitive function in the direct 3D interface. The interface suffers from the same texture size / fetching and state change issues that plague direct 3d. In terms of speed, DD is much better for transferring image blocks than D3D ever will be.
DX is an abstraction layer from the hardware. So programs sit on top of the interface, which hides the device behind the driver. In terms of rendering, programs call the interface functions. The interface transparently calls the driver underneath. How the driver implements any particular functionality is up the driver and device. This is a key point, how the driver is hooked up to the device directly impacts the performance of the programs above it. In other words, some fall back features (such as direct draw in case) that other devices might implemented in hardware, might be implemented in software ands or a combination.
Quote"And the results form the above snippets are ?"
On my old machine I would get at least 900+ fps using camera, bitmap font, text for FPS, loop, nothing else.
ON this machine, 300.
Thank you for the explanation kevin, there we're a few things I didn't know. So in other words, the 8600 gt is rubbish at falling back into direct draw? I did test the same driver on my friends machine.
good luck with the contest anyways, guys.
If you can find a way to fix this kevin, you'd save the day :/ Are you using DXsprites for the text? Maybe you could implement your own thing using planar polygons or something?
So any chance you can look into this, I believe Monkeybot was having the framerate issue as well
Look into what ?
the rubbish driver problem.
i cant use shapes its annoying,it all runs to slowly
Quotethe rubbish driver problem.
and how can I do that ?
Quotei cant use shapes its annoying,it all runs to slowly
What draw mode ?
what he is saying is he is having the same problem as I with the fullscreen + scenecapturing frame rate issue
using the geforce drivers.
and ?
i suppose i should email Nvidia and tell them to pull their heads out of their arses again!
i wasn't aware you could choose drawmode for shapes except vertex/outline/filled
I'm sorry, but I feel it's some problem in playbasic. I mean, the card works fine for everything else. Is it some problem with how the graphics are implemented? Don't get me wrong, I've thought playbasic was one of the best game programming languages until it became broke for me.
[Draco9898's Code]
I get 283-285 FPS running the following code off 'PB V1.63w' on my 'Core 2 Duo (3.0 Ghz)' with 'GeForce 8800 GTX' running 'WinXP (SP2)'.
(Note: I did change the resolution to 1280,1024. My screen doesn't like resolutions below 800,600.)
OPENSCREEN 1280,1024,32,2
createcamera 1
Do
CAPTURETOSCENE
CLSSCENE
text 10,10,FPS()
drawcamera 1
SYNC
LOOP
[Kevin's 1st Code]
I got 1681 to 1685 FPS displayed in the upper left corner, and when I pressed space, I got numbers around:
0.2007083
0.1530551
0.2390596
If needed, I can supply more of the numbers display when space was pressed. (I didn't build a range for them because it was difficult to do so just by clicking space.)
(Note: I changed the resolution to 1280,1024.)
OpenScreen 1280,1024,32,2
Do
inc frames
t=timer()
cls 0
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
text 10,10,FPS()
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
if Spacekey()=true
cls 0
Print t1#/frames
Print t2#/frames
Print t3#/frames
sync
waitnokey
flushkeys
endif
t=timer()
SYNC
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
LOOP
[Kevin's 2nd Code]
FPS display:
1675 to 1679
Numbers when space is pressed:
0.2013359
0.150373
0.2407182
6.072172e-004
3.903539e-004
The numbers displayed when I pressed space range greatly; the above numbers are the ones that appeared the first time I pressed space. However, it may (I don't know!) be worth noting that afterwards the values of the forth and fifth line were 4.Numbers and 2(OR)3.Numbers. Also, the second line became a much higher number. (In other words, there was much fluxing in the displayed numbers.)
If it would be of any help, I can provide more of the displayed results.
(Note: I changed the resolution to 1280,1024.)
OpenScreen 1280,1024,32,2
Do
inc frames
t=timer()
cls 0
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
text 10,10,FPS()
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
lockbuffer
t4#=t4#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
unlockbuffer
t5#=t5#+(timer()-t)
if Spacekey()=true
cls 0
Print t1#/frames
Print t2#/frames
Print t3#/frames
Print t4#/frames
Print t5#/frames
sync
waitnokey
flushkeys
endif
t=timer()
SYNC
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
LOOP
Additionally, if I modify Kevin's 2nd Code section to include Camera/Scene commands, I get...
FPS Displayed:
276 to 277
Numbers when space is pressed:
0.1976662
3.536068e-003
3.407709
3.536068e-004
0.0
When Camera commands are added, it does seem to run much slower.
OpenScreen 1280,1024,32,2
CreateCamera 1
Do
CaptureToScene
CLSScene
inc frames
t=timer()
cls 0
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
text 10,10,FPS()
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
lockbuffer
t4#=t4#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
unlockbuffer
t5#=t5#+(timer()-t)
if Spacekey()=true
cls 0
CLSScene
Print t1#/frames
Print t2#/frames
Print t3#/frames
Print t4#/frames
Print t5#/frames
DrawCamera 1
sync
waitnokey
flushkeys
endif
t=timer()
DrawCamera 1
SYNC
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
LOOP
I hope that information is of some use.
If it would help, I have other machines with different processors and graphics cards loaded. I could run the code off them as well and post the results. (They're all older machines.)
Does anyone know if this issue is only occuring on Nvidia GeForce based cards? Or do the recent ATI cards produce the same frame rate?
Here are my numbers (AMD Dual Core 4400, Geforce 8600GT, Win XP SP2), PB V1.63V6Beta
Draco's code: 748 FPS
Kevin's 1st code:
986 FPS
pressing space gives numbers
0,25
0,53
0,22
Kevin's 2nd code:
978 FPS
pressing space gives numbers around
0,25
0,53
0,23
6,48e-004
6,48e-005
Modified 2nd code with camera commands:
555 FPS
pressing space gives numbers around
0,22
3,5e-003
1,56
4,15e-004
1,89e-004
So adding camera commands does slow it down (which is to be expected as it requires additional calculations) but it doesn't slow it down as dramatically as SpellSword and Draco experience.
Hope it helps,
Tommy
Thank you for interest in code frame rate problem, it interesting to see many result
I used to get frame rates like Thaaks, I would try older version of playbasic, but do not have installers for them
I would also try older machine but it is in remote location.
i was using 1.7g and had my frame rate issues i have re-installed V163 m and it seems to run a lot faster,if i remove the text it is up to the speed it was before......
using a DX10 level card with DX9 forceware drivers(i hate Vista)
When i had completed my last game Big C was having slow framerates so i recompiled into 1.7 and it was fine for him after that point.
maybe we should start a thread in bugs as this issue is bound to effect other users.................
Quote from: Draco9898 on July 22, 2008, 11:30:44 PM
Thank you for interest in code frame rate problem, it interesting to see many result
So why haven't you posted
your results ?????????????????
Quote
I used to get frame rates like Thaaks, I would try older version of playbasic, but do not have installers for them
If you don't have an installed version, then how did you install 1.7x in the first place ?
A few points,
1) while 1000fps and 500 fps might sound like a huge performance difference, we're only talking about a 1 millisecond difference. So if a loop refreshes inside 1 millisecond, you'll get an Fps rate of over a 1000. I.e to get a 2000fps then the main is exiting at 0.5 milliseconds. To run at 1000fps then the main loop would be running at 1 millisecond, to run at 666 the main loop takes 1.5 milliseconds, to run at 500 then it's 2.. 333fps=3 milliseconds, 250fps=4 milliseconds ... etc etc.. To run at a 30fps this gives 33 milliseconds per refresh.
2) I repeat, 1.7x editions don't support cameras..
The following is variation of the previous test. This one profiles the same operations over 5000 frames. Post results bellow. Do NOT change anything about the code, it'll invalidate the result.
OpenScreen 1280,1024,32,2
cls 255
getimage 1,0,0,128,128
cls $ff0000
getimage 2,0,0,128,128
cls $00ff00
getimage 3,0,0,128,128
CreateCamera 1
;Scenedepth
SceneSortMethod 1
repeat
setcursor 0,0
inc frames
// Test Lock
t=timer()
lockbuffer
t1#=t1#+(timer()-t)
Dot 100,100
// Test unlock
t=timer()
unlockbuffer
t2#=t2#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
lockbuffer
unlockbuffer
text 100,100,"Hidden Text"
lockbuffer
unlockbuffer
t3#=t3#+(timer()-t)
CaptureToScene
CLSScene
Text 10,30,Frames
DrawImage 1,300,300,true
DrawImage 2,400,400,true
DrawImage 3,500,500,true
Afps#=Afps#+fps()
t=timer()
DrawCamera 1
t4#=t4#+(timer()-t)
t=timer()
SYNC
t5#=t5#+(timer()-t)
until Frames=5000
cls 0
Print Frames
Print " Fps:"+Str$(int(Afps#/Frames)) // Average Fps
Print " Lock:"+Result(t1#,frames) // lock
Print " Unlock:"+Result(t2#,frames) // unlock
Print " Text:"+Result(t3#,frames) // Text from locked state
Print " Camera:"+Result(t4#,frames) // Camera Refresh
Print "Page Flip:"+Result(t5#,frames) // page flip
Sync
WaitKey
Function Result(V#,frames)
R$=str$(int(V#/Frames*1000))
EndFunction R$
5000
fps: 111
lock: 1
unlock: 184
text: 709
camera: 6030*
page flipping: 95
playbasic 1.71, machine specs in my sig. The camera is eating the most frames, it seems.
5000
fps: 398
lock: 0
unlock: 39
text: 69
camera: 1963
page flipping: 21
playbasic 1.63W10, Athlon Dual Core 4400, 2GB RAM, Win XP SP2, NVidia Geforce 8600GT with standard drivers from manufacturer
[edit] forgot to attach picture. And woohoo - I'm a hero member now 8)
cameras are in the Docs on 1.7...
Erm, There are NO 1.7 doc's...
ahhhhhh
i see..
@kevin: hello boss, i got a question. ;)
is it necessary to implement the editor into the game, or can it be a standalone programm? i guess it's a dumb question, but if one never asks, he 'll never know... :)
(the same as: if you don't even try to solve a problem, you will never know if you could have solved it...)
Quoteis it necessary to implement the editor into the game
Nope. It's doesn't need to be built into the game.
However, including an editor and the src code will certainly increase your chances of winning.
I mean, i will entry both, the editor and the game, for sure. but cant they be a standalone prog, or must it be merged into one prog to recieve points?
at this time i got the game and the editor separated...
erm....
QuoteIt's doesn't need to be built into the game.
yes, i've seen it. ;)
but also:
QuoteHowever, including an editor and the src code will certainly increase your chances of winning.
so is it necessary to include the two components in one prog, or can i enter them as
two separate parts, counting for
one entry?
I give up.. No it's not.
sorry kev, but english is not my native language. i think you 'd have similar troubles if you should communicate in swiss-german... ;D
but i think i got it now. ;)
a simple way to answer...
make your game (= first program)
make your editor (= second program)
put all in one Zip WITH Sourcecode will increase your chance to gain bonus points ;D ;D ;D ;D
if a entry wins, then it will be published on www.UnderwareDesign.com, thats ok so far. but can a contestant build a website for it and publish it there too? or does the entry belong solely to UnderwareDesign? Or do the contestants remain the owners of their materials?
As far as I know you can of course create a website for your entry and offer the download from your site too.
I did the same two years ago with my AstroBreak entry (http://www.haaks.net/astrobreak/index.html). I added all the downloads that are available from Underware Design, including source code. But I also started an enhanced version and offered the download without the sources.
Should be no problem at all ;)
Cheers,
Tommy
Quote from: Green7 on September 30, 2008, 02:24:22 PM
if a entry wins, then it will be published on www.UnderwareDesign.com, thats ok so far. but can a contestant build a website for it and publish it there too?
Yep, you sure can.
Quoteor does the entry belong solely to UnderwareDesign?
Nope - No ownership is changing hands. By entering, you're allowing the submitted version to the distributed via underwaredesign.com - This is required, so other people can play the entered game.
QuoteOr do the contestants remain the owners of their materials?
The
developer owns it, not us.
okey-dokey! thx! ;D